tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6547653347296107692.post7757640071899809295..comments2024-01-09T12:59:32.666+01:00Comments on Narrative and Ontology: Disappointment with Jesus (I)Phil Sumpterhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/16491514886782881340noreply@blogger.comBlogger5125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6547653347296107692.post-61460721597836613492010-01-21T15:21:08.780+01:002010-01-21T15:21:08.780+01:00Anonymous,
contrary in relation to the content of...Anonymous,<br /><br />contrary in relation to the content of my post, which you ignore.Phil Sumpterhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16491514886782881340noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6547653347296107692.post-91848925398240382502010-01-21T04:05:50.729+01:002010-01-21T04:05:50.729+01:00You did invite contrary views.
Please check out t...You did invite contrary views.<br /><br />Please check out this Illuminated Understanding of the life and teaching of Saint Jesus of Galilee.<br /><br />www.beezone.com/AdiDa/EWB/EWB_pp436-459.html#jesusandtheteaching <br /><br />Plus in Truth & Reality we have no idea whatsoever about what happened 2000 years ago, and what anybody who may or may not have been alive then, said or did---it is ALL conjecture.<br /><br />The entire tradition was invented by people who never spoke to Jesus, up close and personalAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6547653347296107692.post-5718541338968692442010-01-20T22:20:38.606+01:002010-01-20T22:20:38.606+01:00Hello Bob,
thanks for your thoughts. I think the...Hello Bob,<br /> <br />thanks for your thoughts. I think the question of the election of Israel is still a question that Christians have to grapple with (as I've been learning in a seminar here in Bonn, it's a hot topic in the German Lutheran church). I certainly don't think the claim to election is parochial, it's a fact of the OT. The question is what does that mean for those outside the covenant of Sinai? My next post will hopefully clarify this somehow. As for your post, thanks for the link. I do feel kind of guilty not having time to answer the questions, but I'm triying to reduce my time on the Internet as much as possible. Please forgive me!<br /> <br />Timonthya3,<br /><br />I haven't really got a worked out answer but here are some spontaneous thoughts, made in relation to the post: the eschatological renewal of creation of which the OT speaks and for which I (along with Isaiah, Jeremiah, and Moses) yearn was revealed proleptically in Jesus' life. Note his answer to John the Baptist's question about who he was ("the blind can see etc."). The miracles have symbolic power for pointing like signposts to what God has promised to do. However, Christians believe we are living in an interim period, the time of the "already-and-not-yet," where the fullness of new creation will be experienced for all. Tomorrow I will post why this "retardation" is necessary (according to Jesus, according to Bartholomew and Goheen).<br /><br />As for <em>our</em> capacity to do what Jesus did, I guess that's still an issue of debate between Charismatics and non-Charismatics as to whether miraculous gifts continued after the early church or not, and to what extent. The early church as presented in Acts seems to have fulfilled what Jesus was talking about, doesn't it? I guess it's just a question of whether these things continue or not. I'm not a good enough NT person to say (I can't even find the quote passage you refer to!). Feel free to correct my thoughts. <br /><br />P.S. Seeing as I own the book in digital format, here's the section where they talk about the symbolic dimension of Jesus' works:<br /><br />"All of Jesus’ "deeds of power" (Mark 6:2, 5 NRSV) indeed are unmistakable evidences of God’s liberating power at work through him. When Jesus heals the blind (Luke 18:35–43), the lame (Mark 2:1–12), the mute and deaf (7:31–36), and the leper (with some skin disorder; Luke 17:11–19), people see God’s healing and renewing power flowing into human history to end the reign of sickness and pain. When Jesus calms the sea (Mark 4:35–41), feeds the hungry (8:1–10), and prepares p 138 an extraordinary catch of fish for weary fishermen (Luke 5:1–11), he demonstrates the power of God to renew and restore a cursed creation. When Jesus raises Lazarus (John 11), the widow’s son (Luke 7:11–17), and Jairus’s daughter (Mark 5:21–43), people see the power of God conquering even death. Not only does Jesus display God’s power to liberate humankind from the ravages of evil, suffering, and death; he also shows God at work to heal the entire creation. These miracles are <b>like windows through which we catch glimpses of a renewed cosmos</b>, from which Satan and his demons have been cast out. Sickness and pain are to be no more, death itself gone forever, and the creation restored to its original beauty and harmony. No trace of sin or sin’s effects will deface or defile God’s new creation" (p. 137).Phil Sumpterhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16491514886782881340noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6547653347296107692.post-85839928254608896932010-01-20T18:29:25.789+01:002010-01-20T18:29:25.789+01:00The bit that simply gets me, or haunts me, is when...The bit that simply gets me, or haunts me, is when Christ says that greater things will you do (than me), when i go away (Ascension). Then i wonder why we don't mark out these greater things done in the name of Jesus, for i would like to hear more about them. Or am i just deaf?Unknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11795485331439360230noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6547653347296107692.post-51913482082841133182010-01-20T17:07:24.650+01:002010-01-20T17:07:24.650+01:00Hi Phil - thanks for this perspective. Our study g...Hi Phil - thanks for this perspective. Our study group has been concentrating on the OT to their unexpected delight. Christians tend to have little knowledge of the meaning of the election of Israel in a wider context. We did Naaman last week and it is clear that children, perhaps fear of disease, and Gentiles are also the locus of the work of Hashem before the time of Jesus. These are universals - "except ye become as a child...", "fear not little flock...", and "it is too little a thing that you should be a light to Israel" ("whom I love" by the way)... "I will make you a light to lighten the Gentiles". Gentiles can be and are as parochial in their application of election as anyone. And everyone can misunderstand the self-criticism of the the prophets of the Old Testament (early or later). This week in the Bible study I am leading a discussion on psalms 90-91. Disappointment in Hashem is solidly expressed in psalm 89. I don't have any takers on helpful comments yet <a href="http://drmacdonald.blogspot.com/2010/01/psalms-90-and-91.html" rel="nofollow">here</a> - I hope someone notices my questions. Feel free to comment or post on these if you have time. It is sort of related to your topic and experience.Bob MacDonaldhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11335631079939764763noreply@blogger.com